Community Power Podcast Series 3 Episode 4: Building community and combating loneliness – the impact of Tonge with the Haulgh’s Men’s Shed

Episode 4: Building community and combating loneliness – the impact of Tonge with the Haulgh’s Men’s Shed 

Chris Allen

Hello and welcome to the latest in our series of the community power podcast. The series is being brought to you in partnership with Local Trust. My name is Chris Allen, and in this series, we’re showcasing some incredible projects, focusing in particular on what happens when you give local people the resources, the power and the assets to make a difference to their neighbourhoods. With me is series producer Kirsten Sinclair, so Kirsten this week a project especially supporting men around their well-being. 

Kirsten Sinclair

Yes, Chris, we talked with coordinator Jeff and volunteers Neil, Steve and Danny from Tonge with Haulgh Big Local to talk about their Men in Sheds group, where they encourage local men to come make stuff and enjoy banter. 

Chris Allen

Indeed, they do love a good banter. And first of all, I asked the four gentlemen to introduce themselves. 

Jeff

So I’m Jeff. I’m based out of St Chad’s church and community centre, and we have a large community garden. And we were privileged to link up with this Men in Sheds group about three years ago, when they were looking for a new site. 

Neil

I’m Neil and two of us from about eight years back started Men in Sheds at a wildlife centre, and then we were looking for a place to come. And Jeff and his team kindly suggested here. So we managed to build our own shed and the workshop, all the benches, and we basically do anything for the community. 

Steve

Yeah, my name is Steve. I’m a treasurer. Look after the money side of things in theory. Yeah, I got retired in 2009, and I retired early because my wife became ill, so I had to look after her. So from being a freelance contractor, I’m looking at four walls, basically. So I heard about these people, and I thought, it can’t be all that bad. So I’ve turned up, and I’ve been there ever since. 

Chris Allen

Thank you. And Danny? 

Jeff

Yeah, so Danny’s one of our key volunteers. He does a lot of work down on site with us. He’s really, he’s come on over the last 12 months and has really become part of the team. 

Chris Allen

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And I think we want to give a mention to your friend Martin here, Neil. Let’s do that at the beginning, because actually, what we’re about to talk about is very much a legacy of the work that he helped introduce in the area, isn’t it? 

Neil

Yes, Martin, a magic man, really was. And he did everything for everybody in the community, fixed cars. Everybody went to the Martin and then, like I say, started with Men in Sheds. He was a craftsman in every way, but [a] very sad loss to us all. We’ve made a memorial bench to him, and it’s, it’s his legacy, what we’re trying to carry on. 

Chris Allen

Thank you, Neil, very much indeed. And you know that, that means a lot, I’m sure, to lots of people to hear that in terms of that, and how Martin started with you on the road here. Now, the first bit of education went on here was for me. I now know you’re up near Bolton, which I do know fairly well, actually. And we’re pronouncing the area as Tonge with Haulgh, or with the Haulgh. Is the Haulgh a river? 

Jeff

No, I’m not sure the origins of the Haulgh area. Tonge is a river. Yeah. So the river Tonge. So there’s three areas in our Big Local. There’s Tonge Moor, Tonge Fold, and then the Haulgh which have historically always been together, like as a council ward. 

Chris Allen

I’ve had the privilege of working up in Bolton a number of times. Now we’ve been talking about the Men’s Shed here. I think probably for those who’ve never heard about the Men in Sheds or the Men’s Shed, somebody ought to tell us a little bit about the whole idea, because it didn’t, didn’t start with you. It’s an idea you’ve taken from somewhere else. Neil, I want you to kick it off on that one. 

Neil

Well eights year ago, when I retired, I started at Men in Sheds. It was just down the road at the Lancashire Wildlife Trust wildlife centre. And we had a visitor, and it was the guy from Australia who started Men in Sheds. So he came across, and we’ve had photographs with him and all this lot. And apparently, I think there’s over now 600 Men in Sheds country wide. They’re all over the place. And it’s basically when you retire, find something to do. 

The first six months of retirement, brilliant, oh, I don’t have to get up. And then after that, you’re crawling up the walls and having to look at daytime television, which not for me. But it’s like, I say, it’s a community thing. And you can, you don’t have to do woodwork. You can do painting. You can do what, you know, as long as it’s safe. The basic thing is, health and safety has got to be looked after. You know, when you do retire, I was an ex-engineer, you miss the banter of, you know, working with people. Yeah, it’s a big thing retirement. Watch what you do when you retire. Think things out. 

Chris Allen

Thanks Neil for that, that great insight, and I will note that in my book as well, for when that time comes too. And Steve, you have the similar experience for what you’re saying earlier, that obviously you were caring for your wife. You took early retirement to enable that to happen, but also then that banter, that mixing with other men in the area, really important to sort of pick up again? 

Steve

Yeah, I was going to retire at 60 and I retired at 59 and a half. 

Chris Allen

So not too bad, okay. 

Steve

When you’re busy and you used to get up in the morning, you think I’m too old. So well, you know, I work for myself. So I didn’t enjoy not getting up and going to work. I just wanted to carry on doing what I’d always done. I heard about Men in Sheds, and this was in Bolton, and I thought hello, here I go. 

Chris Allen

Danny, you’ve obviously had the chance to meet these folks here and other friends, and what’s the kind of things you’ve been able to do there? 

Neil

He helps out with showing them various tools to use, and he’s made his own cassette rack and things like that. Basically, Danny’s not done a lot of hand skills, so we’re showing him all the different things like and he’s coming along, great. 

Chris Allen

Brilliant.

Jeff

Yeah, he does a lot. We’ve got a garden as well and an allotment, and he’s been a big help to an older gentleman who comes down to the garden, and he’s been doing a lot of the hard work for him, and that’s been really helpful so. He is a great help. 

Chris Allen

Well, well done Danny. My next question is, is it just for men? 

Neil

No, we’ve had two or three ladies come along and they enjoy it, but basically they’re looking after family, so they can’t come, you know, pretty regularly. No, we do welcome the ladies, and we help with various, there’s a ladies art group here, and we do lots of work together with those people, you know. 

Jeff

And it’s a really good partnership. Because the reason it’s a ladies only art group is it’s for women with either long time pain conditions like fibromyalgia, or others that might have suffered emotional or domestic abuse. So it’s a safe space for women. But what’s been good to see is after they’ve been coming and they’ve seen like the Men in Sheds out and about, they interact with them. They come into the shed. They feel safe around men, whereas in the past, they might not have done. And that there’s a good interaction asking them to make things for them. And it’s really been good to see two very different types of community group come together, meet, talk, and help each other out. So it’s [a] really good outcome that.

Chris Allen

And it’s good to know it’s, it’s an inclusive group as well. You’re clearly a welcoming, welcoming bunch. You know, it’s a very friendly place to come along to. But I would expect that of people who come from Bolton, you know, I would, that’s what I would absolutely expect. Now, what we’re talking about here, as well is improving people’s mental health, particularly of men. 

Let’s not beat around the bush. A programme such as this can save lives, can’t it? Because we do know that the suicide rate amongst men is three [times higher], three quarters of all suicides are men. And I also know, sadly from my own experience of men taking their lives in other Big Local areas where I’ve worked as well. So what you’re doing here is actually saving lives, and that’s what’s at the heart of it, isn’t it? Neil, in terms of sort of helping people and supporting them around their mental health and wellbeing. 

Neil

Well, this is it. When you’ve been like I say, I’ve had 48 years in engineering, working all over the country and meeting every type of person you could meet. And when you have a bunch of friends as well, the banter, I mean, you’re taking the mickey out of each other all the time, you know, and you miss that interaction, you really do. 

Chris Allen

And you’re very, you very soon become lonely and isolated. 

Neil

Oh yeah.

Chris Allen

And that’s when desperation can often kick in amongst men can’t it? 

Neil

Yes, it’s helped me a lot, hell of a lot. 

Chris Allen

And what about other members in the group? Have they opened up on that? Is it a place where people feel they can talk quite openly about their feelings? Steve, do they sort of open up in conversations? 

Steve

I think they do to a larger extent, yeah. And as I would be, Martin was like a figurehead, you know, everybody looked up to him. Yeah, when he died. It was as though you’d lost your best friend, you know, yeah, so, yes. And he, actually, he helped me. I was putting a new en-suite in, in me house, you know? Yeah, taking the bath out, putting the shower and plumbing. I can’t do plumbing. Well, I can but it will leak all over the place. And Martin came along and helped me do it, and he made a smashing job of it. 

Neil

How he got everything in his car? It was like the TARDIS. Transported everything, you know. We’ve done benches all over, you know, for parks and everything like that. And how he got it all in, I do not know. 

Jeff

Yeah, I think going back to what you were saying earlier about people willing, being willing to say things. We have one member who, over the last few weeks has been really anxious, because he had a phone call from the DWP, and he didn’t really catch on what they were saying. But he just heard the bit about ​“If you’d said something wrong, you might face criminal charges,” and he got in his mind that he was going to prison, because they thought he’d done something wrong. But by coming down talking with us, I could have a look through the stuff, have a conversation with him and the DWP, and it all got sorted within like a week. 

Whereas if he hadn’t had a group like this to go down to, he could have been stuck at home, his anxiety getting worse and worse and worse. And who knows where that could have led. But by being able to be around people that they trust and in all that they can talk to about the problems without it going worldwide or without, you know, I mean the trouble caused by what they say, that they can actually open up and problems can be solved. 

Chris Allen

100% Jeff, that, that’s a great example, really, of, you know, coming together. And sometimes, again, when we talk about loneliness and isolation, that when you retire, or sometimes when people lose their job, it may not be retirement, it may be something that’s forced upon them. They lose those relationships where they can just have that natter. And perhaps, you know, look at problem solving together, or finding someone who knows a little bit more than they do, and that’s all you really need in a friend, isn’t it? Yeah. 

So describe this, this shed. It sounds like you’ve got a bit of an export business going on here, in terms of, you know, going out to people’s places as well, from what dear Martin did. But tell us a little bit about the shed. Describe it for us. 

Steve

24 foot by 12 foot, and it doesn’t leak. 

Chris Allen

So you haven’t done the plumbing then, Steve, that’s the important thing. 

Steve

I didn’t do the plumbing, but it’s electrically wired up and everything. And we got lots of power tools, both battery and, you know, ring main tools, yeah, all descriptions. We’ve got another shed, a smaller shed that’s like a wood store, and another shed that is for sanding because, yeah, because it creates a lot of dust. So, you know, in the main shed, we don’t allow a lot of sanding because we don’t want people complaining and leaving and going somewhere else, you know. But we also make things for charity, like at Christmas time we’ve made a couple of dolls houses and a rocking horse and… 

Jeff

Seven reindeer.

Chris Allen

Can you name them? That’s the important thing. [They laugh]. 

Neil

We’re trying to get solar panels put on the roof so we can go and give electricity back to the church because we share the electric bills. And then the original shed. We went to a shed company in Bury and asked, could they build us one? And they said, yes, we can do for £4800. So we thought that’s a bit much, so we bought our own wood and we built our shed for £2300.

Chris Allen

Wow.

Neil

And it’s insulated and everything. 

Chris Allen

Brilliant and it sounds like you’re spawning sheds as well, from what you were saying there. And now, the key thing is, in your shed, can you make another shed? Because it sounds like you might need some more as you grow. 

Neil

Well yeah, we do need storage space. Because, unfortunately, in Bolton, it seems to rain quite a bit. 

Chris Allen

I’ve heard that. And obviously talking there about the different things you’re making for charity, which is a bit of a side aspect, really, isn’t it? It’s a reason to come together to do that. It’s a very positive result from what you’re doing, but it’s the conversations around those reasons for coming together that are most important for you. Jeff, obviously the church has given some space to this, and obviously the church obviously sees this as something worth supporting, obviously helping with the electric bills as well at the moment. So very positive relationship there? 

Jeff

Yeah, very much. We’ve really benefited from having them down here. It’s been great. We as a church, believe in opening it to the community, and we’re open basically now seven days a week for various activities. So as well as the Men in Sheds, there’s a gardening project. We have two bee hives so we produce our own honey. We’ve got, like I said, the women’s art group. We run, in conjunction with Age UK, an over 50s lunch club. We have a community cafe once a week, staffed by volunteers. 

And on a Saturday morning, we have a learning hub where a retired primary school teacher offers his services for free to do catch up lessons with children from the local area, along with a couple of helpers from the local university. We also fund Wave Adventure, which are a local CIC, to provide outdoor activities to families, so like rock climbing, gorge walking and so on. And the Big Local has enabled us, with funding from the Big Local for all those projects, it’s enabled us to help so many people in the local community. And it’s the reason why this Big Local project has been so vital over the last 10 years. 

Chris Allen

And on top of that, you probably do some services on Sunday as well. Do you? 

Jeff

Yes. Yeah, true. Yeah. 

Chris Allen

I thought I better mention that. And as a church had to adapt, and as a community had to adapt a little bit in the light of cost of living? As we’ve heard of the more and more needs coming out, and that the church sees as part of its mission, sort of working with those, perhaps who aren’t members of the church, but have a kind of common desire to serve people in the community? 

Jeff

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not about these projects, [they] are not about trying to get more people to come on a Sunday morning. It’s about reaching out to people in the community where there is that need, seeing what that need is, and trying to address it. So we operated last year as a warm hub over winter as well. So we opened our doors to people if they wanted to come in to have a warm meal in the cafe and so on. And that got a few extra people in as well. We just want to be as welcoming as possible to show people that a church isn’t a strange place that you only go when you’re getting married or someone you know dies, but actually, it can be a proper space for the community. 

Chris Allen

No. Thanks very much, Jeff, indeed. So coming back to the Men’s Shed, then, Neil, how many members do you have all together who come along and are sort of regulars with you? 

Neil

Up to now, there’s about nine, or 10 ten. Like, we have had more, but like I say, there’s, uh, three of our very good people have died, unfortunately, and then you’re getting certain ages now. We’re not getting the younger people, really, because all the trades are dying out. They really are. So hand skills are missing. The main people we’re getting now are, I call them office wallers. So they’ve not got a lot of hand skills. But when they realise they have got skills, it’s magic. ​“Oh, I’ve never thought I could do that.” And it’s great to see them making things for the first time. 

Chris Allen

I think I’ll be counted as an office waller in that one there, trying to do DIY around the house. And then Steve, Steve talks about his, uh, his plumbing. You know, I can apply that to virtually every area around the house, I would say. And, you know, we’ve obviously talked about the great legacy of your friend and colleague, Martin, but in terms of the programme again, what about the legacy moving forward? What do you see? How do you see this fitting into Big Local’s legacy moving forward? 

Steve

I think it’s just an example. So for our area’s Big Local, our legacy document was all about strong community hubs, which are meeting the needs of local people. I think this is an example of how the Men in Sheds project and idea is such a vital part and bringing people to our community hub, because through them, we’ve been able to link in with local social prescribers, with the Big Local, local doctors and their social prescribers who will recommend us to people that go to the doctors and who clearly have needs outside of just medication, but like social needs and needs to interact. 

And these social prescribers have been down, seen what we’re all about as a hub, seen that these guys are so welcoming, and they know it’s a safe space that they can refer guys into who will benefit. And I can think, especially of over the last year, one of our new key volunteers came in from that way. The first time he came, he was really nervous, and now he’s down here four times, four times a week, and he’s just a tremendous guy, and he’s equally now welcoming to new people as well. 

And the great thing about something like this Men in Sheds group is now that they are self-sustaining. The money that they’re taking for what they make, the commissions that they get, means that anything like tools or equipment or ongoing maintenance, they’ve got the money for that. They’re not having to look around and compete or for a lot of different grants. So it’s good having at least one or two groups at your centre that are self-sufficient, so that you can concentrate on, when you are looking for external funding, on groups that, for one reason or another, are always going to need that additional extra money. 

Chris Allen

Neil, what’s, what’s the thing you’ve made that you’ve most proud of, or the service you’ve offered that you’re most proud of? 

Neil

Probably the benches. What we’ve made for, you know, various people, and then we did 10 bird boxes, flat pack so the Girl Guides could build them up themselves. Just like things like that. You know, it’s, it’s great to start off with, basically palette wood. We try and use as much rubbish wood as we can and make it into something good, and that’s, that’s the good thing. 

Chris Allen

Steve, same, what for you? 

Steve

I don’t know, rocking horse. 

Chris Allen

Oh, right, okay, that sounded a bit adventurous. 

Steve

Yeah? Well, that was for a local organisation that looks after women, I think. 

Jeff

Yeah. It’s a local organisation called Fortalice, which is like a refuge so women who have fled domestic abuse, uh, can go then. They’ve got several houses set up all over Bolton. 

Steve

We’ve also made dolls houses, and we bought some sort of dolls and bits and pieces to put down. We made some of the furniture as well for it, yeah. 

Chris Allen

And again, you know the impact of these things that you’re making again, thinking of those you know, the delight for the children who’ve had to flee their homes, essentially for safety reasons and then the others that you’re working with as well, it sort of has a massive impact on so many lives in so many different ways. Well, you know, well, thanks to you all. Thanks, Neil, Steve, Danny, and also Jeff and of what you do and you have, you are achieving a legacy, and whatever happens in the future, there’s something there in the memory of Martin and also the other friends that you’ve lost in that project as time catches up on all of us at different points as well. But the relationships and the friendships you have there are also, you know, saving a lot of desperation and probably saving lives as well. So thank you all very much indeed. 

Neil

Thank you.

Steve

Thank you.

Chris Allen

We were hearing now from volunteers, Neil, Steve and Danny, supported by worker Jeff from Tonge with Haulgh Big Local in their Men in Sheds project. Very moving interview, really, Kirsten, really. And they’d lost a friend along the way on this journey as well. So it meant a lot to them. 

Kirsten Sinclair

Very powerful project, and it’s really important to build those relationships, especially in retirement. 

Chris Allen

It is and men are particularly bad at making friendships. You know, we’re a bit isolated as a breed. You know, we’re not very good at that. And we do know, obviously the suicide rates amongst men is very high indeed, much more than with women as well. So if people are brave enough to give this project a go, what’s the kind of thing they could do? 

Kirsten Sinclair

Definitely. Well, we will have some links down in the show notes to show you how you can start a Men in Sheds or where you can find a shed. 

Chris Allen

Thanks Kirsten, indeed, please do follow up in the show notes. And Kirsten and I look forward to you joining us next time on the community power podcast, brought to you by Local Trust, discovering what happens when you give local people the money, the power and the assets to make a difference to their neighbourhoods.