Community Power Podcast Series 3 Episode 6: A dream 12 years in the making – reflecting on Mossley Big Local’s community hub journey

Episode 6: A dream 12 years in the making – reflecting on Mossley Big Local’s community hub journey

Chris Allen

Hello and welcome to this week’s Community Power Podcast, a series being brought to you in partnership with Local Trust. My name’s Chris Allen, and in this series, we’re showcasing some incredible projects, focusing in particular on what happens when you give local people the resources, the power and the assets to make a difference to their neighbourhoods. With me is series producer, Kirsten Sinclair. Now Kirsten, I’ve had the privilege of supporting this area’s journey, but set the context for us. 

Kirsten Sinclair 

Thanks, Chris. Mossley, or The Mossley is an estate in the borough of Walsall in the West Midlands, and is seen as part of the Black Country from its industrial heritage. It was built just over 60 years ago, but sadly, developed a reputation that meant neighbouring areas would distance themselves from it. In this episode, we hear how the community’s desire for a local hub is being realised. 

Chris Allen

Thanks Kirsten, so I gathered my podcast kit, headed down to Mossley, and I took my three guests back to the start of their Big Local journey. It was on February the 29th 2012 a memorable day that the area of Mossley and Walsall was awarded Big Local funding, and right at the beginning of the programme, local people said, what we want is a hub. We’re now, 12 years later, getting nearer. Joining me now is Mike Blakemore, who’s been the chair of the partnership for much of that time; also Councillor Gary Flint, who is local councillor up the road, but also the Cabinet member for wellbeing, health and public spaces; and also Angela Verde, who has been the coordinator for most of the programme here as as well, after she had a sabbatical somewhere else, but then returned to the to the area. Mike, you here right at the beginning of the of the journey. Do you remember the times when people would sort of say, ​“Yeah, we want a hub”. 

Mike Blakemore

12 years ago, when we started on this path to getting a community centre, the area had lost its three public houses. We had no means where people couldn’t have social, you know, gatherings. So therefore people have drifted apart. Now with the hub, this will help provide us with a focal point for people to get together and develop a community. 

Chris Allen

And one of the things I think you said to me at that time was ​“other areas of Walsall have got one, why can’t we have one?” 

Mike Blakemore

Well, precisely. We’re on the edge of the borough, and we’ve been forgotten for all these years, you know. We’ve ended up from being the smartest estate in Walsall, and over time, we’ve been forgotten about and forgotten about and left behind. 

Chris Allen

But one of the things that happened, obviously, to you on that journey, was that we had the great Mossley exhibition that sort of rediscovered some of the pride that was in the community, didn’t it? 

Mike Blakemore

Yes, we managed to get people to actually contribute the histories of their time on being on the estate, from when the estate was built 60 years ago. You know from the experience of the building contractors, the open fields, the visibility of the trains at the end of the Crestwell Crescent, the building of the pubs and the shops, and even the church we’ve seen built. 

Chris Allen

But it’s like lots of areas, perhaps the areas where you say there was disadvantage, deprivation, then that lack of space of coming together has been always essential to sort of try to rediscover. And I remember being said to me, actually, the church is the only place where people can meet. 

Mike Blakemore

Well, currently this is the only place on the estate for people to meet. In the early years of the estate, it was quite vibrant. People were neighbourly, and they moved from similar areas to the estate, where people knew one another, still from where they came from. Even though they come from all parts of Walsall, we were brought together as a new group, and everybody worked together to make the estate great. We were the best.
And over time, we lost the families, and we had new people coming on the estate which hadn’t got that community spirit. Over time, with losing the public houses, we’ve lost places where we could meet, except the church, but the church, at the end of the day, is very, very limiting. 

Chris Allen

Some people feel uncomfortable going to a church, even though the church is actually very open to outsiders coming in. Now understand that now also with me is Councillor Gary Flint. And Gary, you’ve, you know, taken on the mantle of chairing the legal entity which now owns the former Youth Club, which is going to be the community hub in here. But it’s been, it’s been quite a journey, despite lots of support locally, it’s been quite a journey to where you’ve got to? 

Gary Flint

It has yeah. Joining the partnership in 2018 obviously, there was a massive need and an attraction to get a community hub. The former Mossley youth club obviously sits within that footprint of the estate, and it was evident that we needed to buy that. Or at least get our hands on it to get it open as a place of communal gathering for the residents of Mossley and the wider population. 

Picking up on what Mike says, the fact that, yes, Mossley was a bit of a forgotten estate. It hasn’t got that community route. Didn’t even have a play area for our local young people until we secured money through the pocket park, which we’ve now installed next to the hub. So it all ties in nicely together, as that communal focus. Consultations that we’ve done over the years have definitely pointed us in that direction that we need those services, those partnerships and a communal space to hold small events, family events, to bring those people together. 

Chris Allen

Well, what I’m trying to get to as well is this length of journey. Again, talking to Mike earlier, sort of saying, Yeah, day one. I just remember day one here. Phil said, ​“We need a hub. We need a hub.” It was the one universal thing. Everybody said lots of other things as well, but ​“we need a hub”. And there’s been support for that idea but sometimes, even with support, it takes a long time to get it through. 

Gary Flint

It does, yeah. From how we purchased it through the community asset transfer programme, evidently, Walsall council didn’t have that policy in place, so that was a first barrier. We managed to purchase it through COVID, which, again, was challenging at the time. But with support from local people, politicians, officers, we got it over the line and we got it through. Thankfully. 

Chris Allen

Also, here’s Angela Verde, who is the Project Coordinator for Mossley Big Local and you’ve had the job, Angela, of trying to make sure we’ve got the money moving forward. 

Angela Verde

Yes, it’s been a hard job, but you know what? Along the way, it’s been really nice to see, especially with the capacity support, how partnership members have evolved. You know how they’ve gained new skills along the way. We’ve upskilled local residents. We’ve uncovered hidden talent. Brought a real arts workshop. They uncovered a lot of talent amongst partnership members and local residents. They’re an art group. They taught BSL (British Sign Language). We’ve worked with various organisations as well. So our Walsall Link Line helping the elderly. Home Start Walsall, helping isolated mothers and fathers come together in one space. And that that was all at the church and sometimes at Mattesley Court as well. So we’ve worked with various organisations to help the local residents. 

Chris Allen

And it’s important to say that, not that the area’s been sitting around waiting for 12 years to actually get this hub, because that was all because actually, while that’s all been going on in the background, all this activity have been taking place as well. And do you think, therefore you’re in a good position then for those, those activities to be sustained? Obviously the Big Local money will be gone but can they still be sustained because of all the learning that’s gone on? 

Angela Verde

Yes, I think they can. So for example, our local bingo that started off as a massive, Big Local activity, and now it’s sustainable. And there is a vision that, yes, we want to transfer over that to the hub. With the other activities, we’re tapping into local funding. There’s a lot of local funding out there that we can tap into to sustain the arts group, Mossley community connections have sustained raw – they’re a separate entity that’s set up through Mossley Big Local, and they’ve tapped into lottery money to carry that on. So yes, there’s plenty out there. 

Chris Allen

And one of the things we’ve said, you know, obviously, already it used to be Mossley youth club. Now moving forward, obviously it’s going to have a wider function than that. But what about young people? Is the hope there that again, it can have be a place for young people to be? 

Angela Verde

Absolutely, the community hub is for everybody. It’s not just going to be for one specific group. It’s going to be for everyone. And we will look into projects for elderly, for parents, for children and especially young people. 

Chris Allen

Right. Mike, what do you hope will be in there? 

Mike Blakemore

So thoughts are having a community cinema. 

Chris Allen

Which has been tried in other Big Local areas as well, so we’re learning from that. 

Mike Blakemore

Because the high cost of now going to a multiplex to watch a movie is out of the range of the children on this estate. We can get suitable programmes on there for Saturday mornings, Sunday afternoons, then during the week. We can do for senior citizens, we can put programmes in to suit their tastes as well. 

Chris Allen

I know you got a personal link to cinema in the past. We won’t cover that, but it’s slightly biased towards it. But actually you still see a real opportunity to bring the community together, to rediscover, perhaps, the art of cinema. 

Mike Blakemore

It’s bringing people back in the enjoyment of films on the big screen instead of just on television. 

Chris Allen

And it’s a community experience, yeah. 

Mike Blakemore

Sitting together with other people, laughing at a movie. Instead of at home passively watching it, you’re there with other people enjoying it. And enjoyment spreads enjoyment. 

Chris Allen

Indeed. And Gary, you mentioned that the pocket park, which is now located within the grounds of the youth club, within the footprint –also, you’re very fortunate, despite it being a kind of almost a satellite estate from Walsall to have a lot of green space next door. 

Gary Flint

We have. We’re quite fortunate to be sitting right on the edge of a local nature reserve. Great links to the canal network, which through Town’s fund money, we’ve had footpaths done, which sits outside the scope of Big Local. But it gives us that new link, safe link as well, with well lit now into the town centre. And it’s all around that activity of improving health. Really doing informal stuff, just walking around the green space is great for mental health and wellbeing. And we are really blessed where we are, that we are surrounded. 

Chris Allen

And will it be possible for the hub to be like a focus for more access to those areas? Because you got the canals around there as well, the black paths I think. That was the other thing said to me on day one,“clear up the black paths.” 

Gary Flint

Yeah, and obviously the black path leads onto a bigger Staffordshire walkway. I honestly hope and believe that it will become an anchor point the building will be for those kind of activities. To get people active. To get them back to nature. There’s nothing better than walking in a green space surrounded. You might be surrounded in a concrete jungle in an urban area, but you’ve got some quality green space that can just free the mind. 

Chris Allen

Absolutely. Because it’s near the end of the Big Local programme, Angela then, you know the money’s nearly run out so and there’s a lot of renovation needed. You’ve obviously had a break in there that’s had to be, you know, stuff so that to be put back in having made some progress. Where’s the money coming from? 

Angela Verde

So the money is coming from the Community Ownership Fund to help renovate the hub. And then we’ve also got a little bit of money from Community Ownership Fund for the project revenue that’s all going to be spent by December. So yes, it will be open by the end of 2024 and I’m also just completing lottery bids to help with our project revenue as well. 

Chris Allen

And have you found it easy to get money in? 

Angela Verde

No, it’s actually been really hard. I think it all depends on what your legal structure is. I’ve faced a lot of barriers with ours. Hence why we’re just talking about… 

Chris Allen

And just to say you’re a community benefit society. 

Angela Verde

Yes.

Chris Allen

And perhaps that as a structure is not understood by charitable trusts sometimes? 

Angela Verde

You’re absolutely right. There’s a lot of funders that don’t understand it. And I think for us, once we have changed our legal structure, it will open up a lot more doors in terms of funding. 

Chris Allen

And what are you hoping to be? 

Angela Verde

A registered charity with the Charity Commission. 

Chris Allen

And having the number. 

Angela Verde

And having that number, yes. 

Chris Allen

Because it means so, it’s so important when it comes to raising money. 

Angela Verde

Yeah because that number carries a reputation, you know. And I think that’ll be really important. 

Chris Allen

Gary, you’re nodding along on that one. 

Gary Flint

Very much. So I think that charity number shows good governance when funders are looking for you. I do completely agree that the mutual benefits cooperative is not understood by all funders, and that is a barrier in itself. Although it’s a great way to encourage the community to take ownership, there’s issues that come with that. So yeah, that charity organisation, with that charity number, will put us in a good place moving forward. 

Chris Allen

And obviously lots of great needs in the area. It remains, you know, Big Local. Ok, 1.2 million pounds over 12 years is a lot of money in one way, and is a drop in the ocean in other way. So it’s still an area of high disadvantage, and therefore bringing you any further money in is going to be important. 

Gary Flint

Definitely, yeah, and obviously, now we’re coming to the end of that funding, it’s the what next. There’s still work to do. There’s still that legacy, and there’s still work to build off. And for us, for me personally, I will say, Big Local’s given us that springboard to move into the next chapter for this area, and that’ll be really interesting on how that plays out over the next 10 years. 

Chris Allen

You’re talking legacy stuff here. You’re talking hope for the future. Is that the way you feel? 

Gary Flint

Yes, pretty much so. There’s a real sense of community spirit in the area, and there’s a real sense of, if you build it, we will come, I’ll use the phrase. And honestly I believe that when we do open the doors, they will come in floods. And we’ll start having that social venue where people can come and feel safe and welcomed. 

Chris Allen

Right. And Mike, in terms of legacy for the area, you know, you’ve been the chair of the partnership for the majority of the time, co chair for part of time, chair for a lot of the time, and you were, I remember you being around on day one. As we get to the end of this period, maybe only a couple more meetings of the partnership, and it will be job done. Well, how does that make you feel? As far as the future is concerned? 

Mike Blakemore

It’s been a long, hard battle. We now come to the end of the road, but the road is now being extended. We’ve brought together groups of people. People who are interested in the community, that developed talents. So therefore we now can go forward with those people, with the talents, and with our own building, our own building, our own bricks and mortar, which is owned by us. We’re not beholden to anybody. So therefore it gives us pride, that building should give us pride and to expand skills in the community. 

Chris Allen

And you’ve given a lot of time over these 12 years. 

Mike Blakemore

Yes.

Chris Allen

I don’t know why I should say, has it been worth it? Because I know the answer, I think, from you will be yes. But what’s been your kind of highlights to stick out in your mind as the kind of things that’s been, that’s been done. There’s so much been done. 

Mike Blakemore

The anniversary of the estate where we got together and helped the church. It was the anniversary of the church and the estate at the same time. 

Chris Allen

And that was interesting, wasn’t it? Because the church was originally built by bricks bought by people around the area. So it was like, ​“Oh, we’re doing it again.” The community again is sort of helping the church become more accessible. 

Mike Blakemore

I should say, as an organisation, we provided them with a grant, which became seed money to bring in other grants, and that has helped the church. It’s got kitchens, toilets, facilities for the disabled, so that makes the building more usable as well. 

Chris Allen

Indeed, indeed. And Angela, you know, you worked here, you went away, you came back. You must love the place. 

Angela Verde

I do, I really do. 

Chris Allen

And you missed it when you went away. 

Angela Verde

I did. I really did. I missed it. And I think the one thing why I feel that we’ve got this far is because I’ve got this passion. I love Mossley, I love coming into work. I love being here. I love, you know, working with the partnership members. I’ve built up some strong relationships with local residents. So, yeah, I really do love my job. And I’m glad to be back, and I’m glad to be now part of the legacy. It’s just so nice to see that from the start, partnership members wanted this. And it was part of this journey for 10 years, and now to see it flourish this year, it’s going to be really exciting. 

Chris Allen

And Gary, you know you’re a local resident. You became local councillor, not in this ward, but next door. Became a cabinet member for around health issues in particular. How important, how strategic will this centre be do you think from your overview of the needs of this community? 

Gary Flint

So from that element of the role Mossley sticks out. It’s a bit of an arm’s length area. It is missed. There’s deprivation within there. There’s health inequalities within there. I’m a firm believer that to tackle those inequalities, we need grassroots organisations to do that. Because from a council perspective, Council is authoritarian. Partners are authoritarian. People sometimes lack that trust. I think COVID played a massive part in that. And I think we’re still resetting from COVID to an element of around mental health and wellbeing. There’s still lots of fear within the system. So I think from having a grassroots organisation that’s friendly, welcoming doors open, who understand that need better than someone sitting in the town hall. 

Chris Allen

So is that about getting close to people? 

Gary Flint

Yeah, so it’s about having a rapport. I’m quite thankful to work in the third sector as well, and I see from both sides of the hat that you open a door from Community Centre, people are welcoming. People will see you. It’s a different atmosphere. It’s a strange feeling to describe, but people respect you more, and they’ve got a closer connection with you in the third sector, which is very important as where sometimes Council don’t always get that element. 

Chris Allen

And do you see this, you know, we have been talking about legacy, legacy of Big Local but we’re talking something bigger here. We’re talking here about, you know, an estate that’s got an immense amount of pride, an immense amount of identity, it also an immense amount of disadvantage as well. So do you see this as being absolutely key from the council’s point of view?

Gary Flint

Yes. So there is lots of disadvantage, but I will say, as a community in Mossley, they’re very resilient and they’re very tough people. And they will come together when they need to come together, and this building will do that. And I think there’s a new push now from partners – public partners – where they understand the need to be delivering from a community level. It’s no good doing it from the top down, it’s from the bottom up. And I think that element will shine through here. 

Chris Allen

Final question, really, to all of you, and that is, when I first got involved with it, I went to a public meeting elsewhere from here, and the speaker talked about ​“the Mossley” as if it was a point of an example of an area that’s a difficult area. I did actually have a word after the meeting with the person concerned, and said, ​“That’s not fair, and that’s stereotyping that area.” But one of the things about Big Local is that an area comes an even better place to live. Do you feel, Mike, that you’ve sort of on the journey people feel Mossley, the Mossley is a better place to live than it was 12 years ago? 

Mike Blakemore

It’s exceedingly better. The Big Local also gave us a determination, what we could do, and not to take no for an answer. 

Chris Allen

So do you think local people are being given confidence to be heard? 

Mike Blakemore

I think so well, from my aspect with meeting people. 

Chris Allen

And Angela, from your time here, from the day one, when you walked in and you looked around, from the community event you organised, hoping for a couple of 100 people to come and about ten did, and your disappointment that day, you remember that day, no doubt that day. 

Angela Verde

Yeah.

Chris Allen

And to where you’ve got, you know, let’s be honest about the journey that is, there’s some big, difficult points there. Do you think from that moment, things have moved forward? And if you were to hold it tomorrow, there might be a lot more people coming along? 

Angela Verde

From 10 to, like, 300 that’s a lot. So yes, I think from that first time I had that meeting, yes, I was disappointed because we only had 10 people turn up. But then on reflection, it was like, Okay, what could I have done, you know, to improve that? And it was a leaflet drop, a basic leaflet drop, because we all assume everyone’s on social media, and they’re not. So a basic leaflet drop as well as advertising on social media. And I think we had a couple of days where I said to the partnership members, right, we’re going to put our hoodies on and we’re going to go out there. We’re going to do a door knock, and we did and then I think it is just word of mouth and building that relationship. And then from that point on, when we when I did the Mossley Big Local exhibition event our 60th anniversary, that was it, that was the hit. 

Chris Allen

And do you think local people feel is a better place to live? 

Angela

Absolutely. I think that event really brought everybody together. And I think the the exhibition, Mossley’s exhibition, it uncovered a vast amount of history that nobody knew about, and I think that really did bring out the pride. 

Chris Allen

And Gary, you know, from your strategic position across the borough again, and the way the estate is talked about by outsiders. Do they see a change? 

Gary Flint

Yeah, and I do believe its former reputation is gone, and I think that’s because, probably from outside, looking inwards, there’s some ignorance. I think Big Local has played a massive part in turning that reputation around. I think from a local level, within Mossley, there’s a better sense of community spirit and community pride. Things have happened. Turned its its vision, I suppose, into reality, but yeah, from the outside looking in, Mossley is in a far better place now. The local housing providers has put some investment into the properties, which in turn, helps residents and helps their customers feel better about themselves. So yeah, I do believe that Mossley’s reputation has drastically changed. 

Chris Allen

That was Councillor Gary Flint, the chair of the body that now owns Mossley community hub; Project Coordinator Angela Verde and long standing chair Mike Blakemore. Kirsten, a lot of determination has been needed. 

Kirsten Sinclair

Indeed, but it looks like the wishes of local people are being realised. Having said that the recent change in government has introduced a little uncertainty. But what stood out for me was that having a hub is nothing in itself, but what you do in it that counts. The local authority are also seeing such places now as key for reaching out to local people. 

Chris Allen

Thanks, Kirsten, and in some ways it wouldn’t be Mossley, if there wasn’t a final, small spanner thrown into the works. You can find more information in the show notes, however. And Kirsten and I look forward to you joining us next time on the community power podcast, brought to you by Local Trust, discovering what happens when you give local people the money, the power and the assets to make a difference to their neighbourhoods.